In your comment box, revisit chapters seventeen through twenty seven by responding
to another student's ideas, uncover something new to discuss, analyze,
revise, observe, synthesize . . .
You may also want to consider the essay "Plain Jane's Progress" when commenting -- not necessary, but it may help move you along.
At home, read ahead in Jane Eyre for next week, Chapts. 28-End.
In chapters 16-27 Bronte focuses the novel on the possibility of a relationship between Jane and Rochester. Bronte sets up this idea while Jane is talking to Rochester on the stairs and almost calls her “my love.” Bronte then begins to emphasize the manipulative nature of Rochester through his affairs with Miss Ingram and the event where he pretends to be a gypsy and talks to all of his guests. Bronte sets up an unstable relationship beginning with the proposal that results in drawing Jane to tears. Bronte may be making a statement about Victorian marriage by revealing Bertha to the reader on the day of the wedding. All of these factors lead to the destruction of Jane’s only progression relating to the development of a relationship but uses this event to progress Jane as a person as well as proving her skepticism about the relationship early on. While Jane is hurt by what Rochester did she is learning about herself through her interactions with others.
ReplyDeleteThe past several days our class has thoroughly discussed chapters 17-27 in Jane Eyre. I have benefited from these conversations in many ways, and many of my questions surrounding various topics have been answered. For example, I was confused as to why Rochester dressed up as the gypsy and was so adamant on getting Jane to enter. For some reason, it had never occurred to me that perhaps he was attempting to get her to admit her intimate feelings towards him, as I believe Henry had said.
ReplyDeleteI am not exactly sure where I stood when it came to the “signs” and “premonitions” that Jane should’ve seen before she was married. I do not believe the split tree caused by a lightning storm offered anything more than a subject for Rochester to call her over to. I do agree with the rest of the class with my feelings towards how he proposed. I found it rude for him to play with her feelings so much, and also incredibly unsympathetic for him to constantly lie about his arrangements with Miss Ingram. Overall, Rochester is still not a character whom I favor, and I thoroughly respect Jane’s decision to leave for it showed great moral strength and progress into her independence.
I am still left with one question, although it is menial. Why does Jane constantly refer to Rochester as “Edward”? His name is clearly not that, and it seems as if she is giving him a fake persona much like the one he gave to Bertha. Could it be that addressing him by his legitimate name is too difficult for her because it forces her to realize that all that is happening is not fiction or a dream? I would love to get some input on this idea.
In my opinion, chapters seventeen to twenty seven highlight Jane’s strange relationship with Mr. Rochester. They also show Rochester’s manipulative ways and continue to show Jane’s maturity into wisdom and self control. When Rochester brings home many guests, including the cruel and insulting Blanche, Jane reacts calmly to their insults, eventually crying when alone with Rochester. This could show Jane’s progression into maturation since before; she would have reacted inappropriately in front of everyone, including Rochester. Also, when Jane discovers that Rochester is already married to Bertha Mason, the madwoman in the attic, she calmly forgives him, then parts ways with him. This shows her wisdom because if she had married Rochester while he was still married to Bertha, she would have brought shame to him and herself because she and everyone else would have looked at her as Rochester’s mistress rather than his wife.
ReplyDeleteRochester’s manipulative nature is also revealed in these chapters. For example, when he proposes to Jane, he excites her jealously, forcing her to confess her feelings for him. Also, when he poses as a gypsy and starts asking Jane questions, it seems like he is just waiting for her to give him the wrong answers, finding something about her to critique.
In Jane Eyre, from Chapter 17 to 27, there was a big shift in the story about Jane's emotions. For me, it became more interesting and turned into a book I had trouble putting down. Jane has finally found people who love her and it has allowed her to love as well. She is able to love Adele and become a bit more open with people when they try to get to know her. Yet, she presents a challenge to Mr. Rochester, unlike Blanche. Blanche, according to Mr. Rochester is used to make Jane jealous. He is using her to get to Jane, and it works eventually. For a long time she stays reserved and quiet and stubborn. She doesn't just let him in. He has to work and work at getting Jane to open up to him. There has to be a lot of trust. Trust, is something that is destroyed when Jane finds out about Mr. Rochester's wife. I think Jane's stay with him taught her a lesson. A lesson that has a negative meaning, the world is a cruel place filled with problems. You have to sacrifice something to be truly happy.
ReplyDeleteI found chapters 17-27 of Jane Eyre more interesting to read than the first section of the novel. These chapters focus more on Jane’s time at Thornfield and her relationship with Mr. Rochester. I thought that the chapters where Blanche Ingram and the other guests were visiting at Thornfield were particularly important to the book as a whole. In them, you begin to see more of Mr. Rochester’s controlling nature and how strong his control is over Jane. A particular scene that drew my attention to this was when he disguised himself as a gypsy. In doing so, he was hoping that Jane would reveal her emotions about him to the ‘stranger’ before her. However, Jane was the only one that was able to see through the disguise and discover that the old gypsy woman is actually Mr. Rochester. Even after this and other instances where his controlling nature is evident, she continues to fall in love with him and acts almost as if she is in denial of how selfish he is.
ReplyDeleteA scene that stuck out to me as important is the scene at Jane’s and Mr. Rochester’s wedding where it is revealed that Mr. Rochester is already married. I think that this is the wake up call for Jane, and she realizes how conniving he is. After she discovers this, she realizes that she needs to leave him and Thornfield forever. Although it is evident that is strongly pains her to do so, she needs to do it for herself. It is from this incident that Jane is finally able to break away from Mr. Rochester’s hold on her. However, even when she is leaving, she is fully aware of the fact that he still has some hold over her. If he were only to call her name or tell her to stay, she would turn back to him immediately.
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ReplyDeleteI agree that, as my peers have stated previously, these chapters are focused at least in part on the bizarre relationship that develops between Jane and Mr. Rochester. I believe that in these chapters Jane moves further along on the path that originated in chapters one through sixteen. She retains and solidifies the refinement that had developed in prior chapters, and while her volatile, rebellious nature has lingered under this gilded sophistication that nature is also changing. In her childhood, her rebelliousness was regarded with disdain. In her adulthood that spirit, while subdued, is pushing her towards independence. Jane Eyre is on the cusp of independence, but her relationship with Rochester is hampering her progress. During the instances in these chapters in which Rochester is away from Thornfield, Jane’s confidence returns. Once Rochester returns, or immediately after he departs, Jane becomes jealous, self-conscious, nervous, her strength in herself diminished. I agree that Jane exhibits wisdom in hesitating to marry Rochester upon learning of Antoinette, and also found Rochester’s proposal peculiar, but I don’t fully understand Rochester’s motives at this point. Is he trying to begin again? Is he transfixed by some twisted fantasy that he hopes to realize via a marriage with Jane? Or does he have darker ulterior motives, an obscure agenda, that may spell further gloom for Jane Eyre? Given the parallels between Wide Sargasso Sea and Jane Eyre, and an understanding of Rhys’ novel and its intentions, I can’t help but speculate about the fate of this young governess. The motives of Rochester and, perhaps, Bronte and Rhys, remain to be seen as we approach the novel’s end.
ReplyDeleteIn my copy of Jane Eyre, the chapters are partitioned into three books. The first is chapters 1-16, the second, 17-27, and the third, 28 on. The fist book, as the class discussed previously, establishes the character Jane needed to be before she met Edward Rochester. It recorded her extremes, fire and ice, and it made the reader familiar with Jane's mean. Understanding her background is crucial to understanding her relationship with Rochester and especially for understanding the biggest question in book two--why does Jane flee Rochester's clutches? I believe the reader is meant to be repulsed by Jane's and Edward's relationship, but the beautiful language is enough distraction to make the reader comply with Jane's will to marry Edward. Jane never had a father, and the closest she came to a mother was miss Temple. Now, after a childhood of compliance, she finds reason to rebel from the father-like control of her beau. Still, I haven't answered why she left Thornfield. The answer, as best I can figure it out, has to be this: 1.becoming Rochester's mistress was repulsive to her heavily indoctrinated purview, 2. however much she was attracted to the power and control Rochester wielded over her, she would not make herself helpless under his whims and his human will, requiring the legally and religiously binding promise of fidelity 3. She saw, in Rochester's past mistresses, what would become of her were she to give in to passionate desire, 4. Jane obstinately kept her character through hers and R's courtship, she would not give R reason not to respect and to worship her once the relationship changed its face, 5. Rochester lied to her, did not trust her, and had experience and understanding too complex and aged for Jane, who was still simple and innocent.
ReplyDeleteThe reasons Jane ran away were precisely the reasons Rochester loves her. So why, I really want to know, did Rochester do to Jane as his father and brother did to him. Why did he render her helplessly in love with him using Blanche, as he had been rendered infatuated with Bertha through high society, beauty, and competition? I can't answer that. Rochester's character is now complicated ten times as much as it first was.
In Jane's naivety, Rochester had to be controlling, but once she is able to maintain her character within a relationship, just as she is learning to maintain it in society, then Rochester will have to yield to her equally.
I believe that what people said about Jayne retaining her earlier feistiness throughout chapters 17-27 is true. I also agree that during these chapters, the book focusses mostly on Jayne's and Rochester's odd relationship. I do not agree however, that Rochester has any dark ulterior motive concerning his courtship of Jayne. Someone said in class that Rochester might be attempting to attach to his life someone more pure than himself and the average of his previous acquaintances. I think that if there is any deeper, underlying motive in his pursuit of Jayne, that this is probably it. Either that, or he is driven by the desire for liberation from his past life and the insane wife that comes with it.
ReplyDeleteEither way, I do not believe that Rochester is justified in his treatment of Jayne, although I think that he was sincere in his wish to hide the truth from her at least partly in order to protect her from any damaging knowledge.
On the surface, and discounting any hidden, sinister motive, Rochester seems to want Jayne largely because of the challenge she presents him. Every other suitor would have, and has willing, thrown themselves at Rochester. Jayne resists, thus becoming an object worthy of Rochester's attention.
In chapters 17-27, the reader (and Jane) learns more about the mysterious Mr. Rochester. I noticed his manipulative tendencies and need for control in particular. It seemed that he had some degree of control with most situations, even the situation with Bertha. Though he had little control over her behaviors he was able to confine her and hide her existence from everybody in the house. He pretty much had complete control over her life, and he would soon begin attempting to control Jane’s. He toyed with her emotions using his relationship with Blanche.
ReplyDeleteAfter Jane and Mr. Rochester became engaged their relationship changed completely and abruptly. I felt like he treated her like his child sometimes which bothered me, and I was also irritated with him constantly referring to her as his (my favorite was “my mustard seed.”) Immediately it seemed like he tried to mold her into the part of wife, he forced her to accept new clothing—which was something very un-Janely. Jane did, however, stay true to who she was, she kept her attitude towards Rochester and didn’t change her behaviors. And she refused to stay with him when she became aware of his marriage to Bertha.
The chesnut tree was an interesting symbol which stood out to me. It served as somewhat of a symbol to the relationship between Jane and Rochester. It was here that he proposed and that night it was split in half by lightning. In a way it was foreshadowing their separation. Their relationship ended in the departure of Jane. She left into a world where she had few connections and no clear destination. My biggest question is how Rochester will be reintroduced in the book, because I’m sure that this isn’t the last we see of him.
While reading these chapters and coming to the point where Jane chooses to leave Rochester, it occurred to me that if Jane truly loved Rochester just as much as she seems to express, then how could she have brought herself to leave him? For someone so young and inexperienced who began admitting her love for him not very long after knowing him, it is interesting to wonder if the emotions she is feeling are even love for Mr. Rochester. As previously mentioned, Rochester’s gift of skillful manipulation may have surely been a large part of why she is so convinced that she loves him. Her ability to break off from his control I believe began with her refusal of his gifts and this ended up preparing her for her decision to leave him completely after discovering that he had not been truthful. Why Rochester feels like he needs Jane in his life I think is because he wants to have something good in his life that does not come with any attachments or worries. This was someone he thought he could have just been happy with, especially after he realized she had become completely convinced that she was in love with him. The true feelings of the characters in the novel continue to be something that I question.
ReplyDeleteIt's clear that the biggest thing that happened in chapters 17 through 27 was Jane and Mr. Rochester's bizarre relationship. Rochester goes to great and, at the same time, risky lengths to strengthen Jane's love for him, such as courting another woman, dropping hints that he's about to get engaged but not specifying, and dressing up as a gypsy woman to find out more information about Jane's own feelings. But I think it's also quite clear from early on that the relationship was never meant to last. I agree with what Winslow said about the lightning struck tree foreshadowing failure. The tree is the most interesting symbol of their relationship. To begin with, it's in the orchard which is a place where Rochester and Jane talked a few times, and a place which Rochester specifically likes to go. It's also where Jane was proposed to, and just after she's proposed to the tree is struck by lightning.
ReplyDeleteAfter that I feel that the relationship between Jane and Rochester becomes strained, especially after Mrs. Fairfax talked to Jane about being careful about rushing into a marriage with Rochester. It's that conversation that brings Jane's emotions back under her control. She continued to love Rochester, but had the conversation with Mrs. Fairfax not happened, I don't think she would have left after she found out he was already married.
There was a piece of irony that I found especially interesting in this section. Jane is getting ready for the wedding and says “Mrs. Rochester! She did not exist: she would not be born till to-morrow, some time after eight o'clock A.M.” This is ironic on two levels. First, she says this, but in reality she isn't going to marry him, and second, Mrs. Rochester already did exist. It's my favorite quote so far.
As it has been mentioned, chapters 17-27 are mainly focused on the relationship between Jane and Rochester. A lot of what we discussed in class was helpful and cleared up a lot of confusion that I had while reading the book, such as Rochester dressing up as the gypsy. I believe that Rochester purposely invited Blanche and the guests in order to make Jane jealous. I'm not sure how to feel about Rochester at this point. I feel that he is very manipulative and controlling since he lied to Jane when he went in disguise as the gypsy in order to have her in his control and trespass into her thoughts and feelings. Also, the fact that he locked up his wife, Bertha because of the fact that her genes cause her to have crazy fits shows how controlling he is. He did not have the right to do that to her, in doing choosing to lock her up rather than help her he has caused her to become worse since she is completely isolated and would most likely act up to get attention. The only reason why I like him is because Jane cares a lot about him and he is the first person that Jane has come across to actually love and care about her. Their relationship is very interesting because it wasn't very "Jane-like" for Jane to immediately declare her love for Rochester so quickly. Jane has not changed very much though, she still stands up to her morals and respects her beliefs. For instance, when Rochester buys her jewelry and she doesn't accept it, I think it was very bold of her to not accept his riches, I think that shows him that she really loves him and doesn't want him for his money like Blanche does.
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